(no subject)

[wrenb]

I heard about this news story on NPR this morning. Prince William County in Virginia passed a resolution to prevent illegal immigrants from accessing any county services, and have authorized county police to check immigration status.

Leaving aside whether this is a good idea or not, I foresee major implementation issues. A person applying for a library card, arrested or entering a county health clinic may be asked for proof of immigration status/citizenship. I could prove my status (I carry a Resident Alien card) but my DH couldn't on a casual basis because he was born in the US. Are US citizens going to start carrying passports and birth certificates in their wallets?

This is likely to degrade into racial profiling. In order to beat that accusation they're going to have to ask *everyone* to document their citizenship/immigration status. That means not just Hispanics and other brown-skinned people but the 8th generation white American kid who has no passport. That's going to upset people.

Comments

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

It's a daft resolution, which should die a quick and relentless death. The cost of checking each and every would-be library patron's immigration status is going to be exponentially larger than the cost of loaning books to illegal immigrants. And so on.

And the racial profiling angle is ripe for lawsuits.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

I think you're being too entirely optimistic that people will attempt to beat the accusation. I think it's just open season on brown people.

[zathrus.livejournal.com]

What about a driver's license? I've only ever experienced this process from the perspective of a US citizen, but surely a non-citizen getting a driver's license would have to prove that they are here legally as part of that process, given all the things that a citizen has to provide to prove identity. And, while many/most libraries have traditionally emphasized proving residency, surely it wouldn't be that hard to switch that requirement to "government-issued photo ID w/ current address." Then the burden is shifted to the DMV, which is already carrying most/all of the burden involved.

And when it comes to other services, such as health clinics and the like, some such places are already requiring photo IDs due to the rise in medical identity theft.

It would be irritating to be required to take my license to the park when I want to play with the kids unencumbered by excess baggage, or when walking down the street, and it does have a bit of a totalitarian-state feel to it, but I don't know how much of an enforcement nightmare it would actually be.

Newt

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

The DMV is less good at checking citizenship than they would, ideally be - many illegal immigrants have managed, one way or another, to acquire drivers' licenses.

As a resident of a city with a large student population, I am well aware of the booming trade in faked and forged drivers' licenses, as well as stolen ones. I do not expect a librarian to have any particular ability to spot forgeries, or identify that the license presented by a patron is not that patron's legal property.

Then there is, as always, the problem of how to deal with people who don't drive, and consequently don't have drivers' licenses at all. They may or may not have DMV-issued state ID cards (if they're under 18, most likely not). Many homeless people hang out in libraries during the day, especially in winter, and don't have ID because they don't have legal addresses. These people typically don't have borrowing privileges (which require a mailing address to establish), but they use the building, read the newspapers, and use the computer access. Would they be banned because they can't prove citizenship? Would they not be allowed to walk through the park? Have you considered the inconvenience of blocking off something like a park so that ID can be checked and it can be assured that only legal immigrants are using it?

[torrilin.livejournal.com]

This is not substantially more severe than the restrictions already in place. You can no longer fly, take a bus or the train across state lines without government issued ID. Your birth certificate is no longer good enough to go to Canada. And in many states, you must have your license on you to drive. The old provisions that allowed time for you to prove your identity are getting changed.

So yes, it's open season on brown people, but it's also open season on anyone odd looking, and on white people who are foolish enough to believe that being a citizen means something.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

I have a coworker who's been desperately trying to get her green card for years.

There may be a raft of civil liberties issues at the moment, but don't jump from that to assuming that citizenship has lost all meaning. It carries tremendous benefits which are largely invisible to those of us who have always been citizens, because they have never been challenged.

[torrilin.livejournal.com]

Um, my citizenship gets challenged pretty regularly. I still can't get a bank account, and I was born here. I also can't get a passport, and the DMV can't tell me if I have sufficient documentation to transfer my driver's license.

So yes, I feel pretty justified in saying current restrictions are severe. I'm not entirely certain I'll be able to *vote*.

Nevermind little niceties like being able to travel.

[wrenb.livejournal.com]

I've never heard that. Usually I come across forms that have a check box: citizen or non-citizen. So Drew checks "citizen" and goes merrily on his way. I check "non" and then dig out my green card to fill in the number.

[webhill.livejournal.com]

Well, isn't it federally mandated that US citizens do NOT have to carry proof of citizenship??

[wrenb.livejournal.com]

I didn't know it was a Federal mandate. I noticed that it can be simple to prove that one is NOT a citizen, but harder (in one's wallet) to prove that you are.

[wrenb.livejournal.com]

You learn something new every day around here.

I've never applied for a driver's license, but I know my parents didn't have any trouble getting theirs when we were living in the US on a limited visa (Dad could work, Mum couldn't). When Drew and I moved to Wisconsin all that was required for him to get a license was to turn in his Texas one, and I turned in my NJ state ID. Again, no one asked us to prove citizenship. Granted, this was pre-2001.

Social Security Numbers are issued to aliens all the time. So that's not proof of citizenship either.

All the proofs that I can think of are the type of thing that live in my firebox, not things that live in a wallet. Hence, it's an enforcement issue.